Larose Forest

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Anonymous

Guest
If you are referring to the Kid's Ride July 9 the closest accomidation is probably the Howard Johnston's near Kemptville. Check your maps; north on highway 416 to county road 43 exit then east a couple hundred yards. Phone 613-258-5939.
 

amuzme

New member
Here is the official word from the Untied Counties Director:

We have the same problem with 'unofficial' signs in many areas of the province.

Mr. Hoeverman,



For the moment motorcycles are allowed pretty much everywhere in the forest, with the exceptions of the marked ATV trails, since the proposed regulatory by-law has not been adopted yet. The “No Motorized Vehicles” signs were installed a few years ago in an effort to stop the motorized vehicles from using the cross country ski trails and other erosion prone areas. There is no by-law that authorizes these signs. We do however encourage trail riders to respect these signs. The majority already do!



It is our intention to include a schedule (map) with the proposed by-law to identify areas that will be available for multi-use trail riding. The use of all the other trails by motorized vehicles will be prohibited. I anticipate that the by-law will be adopted by County Council no earlier than September 2006. As stated in my previous email, I will provide you with a draft copy before it is presented to Council.



As for where motorcycles will still be allowed, I refer you to the map I sent you in my last email. Motorcycles will be allowed on the multi-use trails. This represents an approximate trail network of 55 km. The subject of a specific motorcycle trail network in the forest was brought again at the last Planning Committee meeting on June 14th 2006. The Committee is still not prepared at this point in time to grant such a trail network in the forest.



Regards



Louis Prévost, MCIP, RPP
Directeur / Director
Département d'Urbanisme / Planning Department
59, rue Court
L'Orignal ON K0B 1K0
(613) 675-4661 poste 7100
(613) 675-1007
www.prescott-russell.on.ca

We may want to approach the XC ski folks as well to see how they view Motorcycles on single track. If we assist in maintaining the trails they may welcome us.

Ken
 

amuzme

New member
I had a note in my calander to follow this up if I had not heard from them.

I have sent the county another letter to see where the situation stands and to appeal to then to get us involved prior to any by-law proposals.

There does not seem to be a way to attach a file so here is a past of the letter sent todday. I copied the CAO and your President and VP.


United Counties of Prescott and Russell August 15, 2006
Louis Prévost, MCIP, RPP
Directeur / Director
Département d'Urbanisme / Planning Department
59, rue Court
L'Orignal ON K0B 1K0

RE: Proposed by-law for Vehicle Use of Larose Forest By-law

Mr. Prévost:

I was able to visit the Larose Forest in July and had a very pleasant day. I spent the morning riding only the trails proposed for use and the afternoon riding the trails currently posted as non-motorized.

I did not ride the horse trail improperly posted by CEREC as single use. I have contacted the Ontario Equestrian Federation (OEF) as CEREC is a member and may be using the OEF insurance policy to cover the 3rd party liability. The sign seems to assure equestrians that they will not encounter any motorized traffic even though I could have legally ridden the trail. This is a dangerous practice and we hope nothing arises from it.

The OFTR has advised our members that the non-motorized signs are not enforceable according to your email of June 22, 2006. We are also concerned that the county staff has been advising riders that a by-law has already been passed to support the signs. You have clearly stated the OFTR would be advised of any by-law proposals regarding Larose Forest so we may advise

During my visit there were many motorcycles and ATVs as well as some paint ball enthusiasts. I spoke with all of them about the forest and upcoming proposed legislation. I advised them that the actions of a few irresponsible motorized riders are causing concerns and to take the time to speak with others about their actions. I also had a pleasant talk with a nature photographer and a local landowner. This is a common OFTR approach in areas under concern and often provides a notable change in behavior.

Our experience has been that banning motorized users from forests causes enforcement problems and tends to escalate any conflicts that may exist. Bad behavior cannot be attributed motorcycles any more than automobiles. AN open line of communication and stewardship allows for education and an increased presence of authority which can greatly reduce any problems the county is experiencing in Larose Forest.

The ATV trail map directed me to mostly wide trails and the corners are banked in such a way to drive riders to the outside regardless of the direction they are traveling. I found this situation to be unsafe even at 50 kms. The trails off of the main forest roads are much safer and slower and provide a very enjoyable trails experience. I was also able to find some ‘single track’ which is commonly created by motorcyclists and often used by hikers and equestrians. During my ride, there were no signs of any other uses besides motorcycles on these narrow twisting trails. It is the preferred trail experience of our members.

The suggested area of use on the map only utilizes a small portion of what already exists in Larose. We have experience in this practice which tends to concentrate use and cause more damage.

Off Road Motorcycles (ORMs) and ATV enthusiasts require considerable distance for a quality outing. It is wise to plan multiple trail systems, each with adequate distances to provide several hours of riding without having to retrace part of the previous route. The lack of adequate trail distances for OHV recreation is one of the most serious problems facing public lands managers.

…2

Page 2

While it is our intention to address fully the prejudice at times directed at motorized enthusiasts, it seems necessary to touch on the all too frequent strategy of closing trails rather than managing them equitably and competently. To be sure, there are times when temporary closure of a trail to ALL types of recreation travel is a reasonable option to consider. However, in the case of ORMs or ATVs, unwarranted trail closure has caused a reliable sequence of events of trail damage that leads to even more trail damage.

The events go something like this:

First minor damage is found on a few trails. The damage is the result of foot, horse and motorized use on improperly designed or poorly maintained trails. Trails are then closed to “prevent resource damage.” Interestingly, the trails are closed only to ORMs and ATVs or in some cases ORMs, ATVs and horses.

After the closure there are fewer trails available to support a growing population of motorized recreationists, and overuse begins to take its toll. Managers again close more trails and the processes of events have come full circle. The burden has once again falls on one or two groups of outdoor recreationists.

There is no substitute for adequate mileage of well maintained, competently designed trails, at least not for the conscientious land manager. Our goal is to provide recommendations that help Prescott-Russell forest managers meet their responsibility to provide high quality outdoor recreation opportunities for all users.

The united counties should first acquire an understanding of the recreation and its participants and then develop an analytic approach to developing and managing trails and facilities. With notable exceptions this happens all too seldom and the management process becomes an even greater burden. Local users groups supported by provincial federations provide planners with the information they need to competently locate, design, construct and manage motorized trails. The moral and ethical questions surrounding the problems of bias and even bigotry against motorized recreation need to be openly addressed and impartially resolved.

The OFTR and its local members would like to work with officials in Prescott-Russell to establish a Forest Recreation Policy that will provide a high quality trail experience for all types of users.


Yours Cordially,

Ken Hoeverman
Executive Director
khoeverman@rogers.com

CC: Stéphane Parisien, CAO UCPR
Bytown Motorcycle Association

Thanks again for your wonderful hospitality at the Limerick Ride.

I am routing the Corduroy but hope to have enough done to attend the Boooooogie!!

Ken
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi Guys,

I have not heard anything about Larose in quite a while. I was at the Trail Ride at Ganaraska Forest on Aug 13 and spoke with Ken from the OFTR. Great Ride by the way. Ken informed me that to his knowledge there is no existing bylaw in place banning bikes from Larose. He suggested that we ride away - on quiet bikes respecting the rules of Larose. If anyone runs into any opposition he would like to be notified - his email and phone number are embedded further up in this chat's string.

If anyone is riding out there please post something here to let us know how it is going.

Thanks

ChrisM
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hello. Here is letter #2 to Mr. Prevost. Meeting is September 7th at 1 p.m. in L'Orignal. I don't think that they care how I feel, but I felt better writing.


Dear Mr. Prévost,

First issue: I am glad to report that I did go to the forest on Friday and had a wonderful time. Thank you for the detailed map, it was helpful. My husband and I respected all signs posted and never entered a marked "No Motorized Vehicle" trail. We were stopped by an OPP Officer and a By-Law Officer who checked our plates and insurance (all in order), and advised us to enjoy ourselves as we only had two weeks left and that soon it would be "no dirt bikes"; this according to the OPP officer (I have his badge number should you need it). I thought, as per our telephone conversation on Wednesday August 23rd, that I would be allowed in the forest even after this proposed by-law passes and that I completely misunderstood or was misinformed about the proposed by-law? Obviously everyone is getting misinformation, even the officers of both the OPP and By-Law Enforcement Unit have no idea what they are to enforce. I urge you strongly to advertise the changes to be made at the Larose Forest concerning vehicles and use restrictions, before the September 7 presentation of this by-law and the date chosen to vote in the local papers throughout the United Counties.

Second issue: Regarding allowing a motorcycle club stewardship, same as the OFATV club. You read to me part of a letter from a Mr. Ken Hoeverman (I found the complete letter online) where he stats having ridden in the "No Motorized Vehicle" trail and how that was upsetting to you and not good for their cause. He represents the OFTR I believe. In an earlier e-mail you stated, "There is no by-law that authorizes these signs". So, you tell him these signs are not valid and then are angry that he did not respect them!? Please do not let this issue be the only reason you do not allow a motorcycle club the same rights as the OFATV. Please, reconsider this as at the moment, no one is representing me in decisions made by the United Counties Council. Four-wheel, dog-sled and equestrian enthusiasts are all represented, but not a two-wheel motorcycle/dirt bike enthusiast.

I am still interested in speaking at the September 7th meeting regarding this by-law. Please let me know if there is a change in time, date or place.

Thank you,


Marlene Bleau

cc: The Review
Le Carillon
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Should have checked my email first:

Hello Ms. Bleau,

As per your request, please be advised that the next Planning Committee meeting will be held on September 7th, 2006 at the Counties Office in L'Orignal at 2h00 p.m. I will be inviting the Executive Director of the Ontario Federation of Trail Riders to attend. Please let me know in advance if you plan to attend.

Regards,

Louis Prévost, MCIP, RPP
Directeur / Director
Département d'Urbanisme / Planning Department
59, rue Court
L'Orignal ON K0B 1K0
(613) 675-4661 poste 7100
(613) 675-1007
www.prescott-russell.on.ca
 

amuzme

New member
Thanks for the update Marlene.

I actually did not mean to upset the counties by riding in the posted areas. The idea was to see what we are losing. I will explain that at the meeting on the 7th.

Let me know if you are attending and if you would like to present anything. If we both get to speak we should co-ordinate our messages.

I have also asked them for a copy of the proposed by-law.

Feel free to call me.

Ken
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I will be at the meeting for sure and will send you a quick review of what I'd like to say.

Heard from Mr. Prevost this a.m. and I can receive a copy of the draft at the meeting, not before. So, no way to prepare ahead of time.

I found, on the internet, some documentation regarding a proposal the planning committee had presented to the Council regarding a proposed theater and at that time, they had used a local paper which is delivered within the united counties to let people know and held a general meeting. I phoned that paper today to asked for any information they might have regarding this proposed by-law - NONE. So, I have sent them my two letters to Mr. Prevost and they will probably publish them. The Review already published the first one (http://www.thereview.on.ca/letters.html). At least people should start hearing about this now...
 

amuzme

New member
Great!

I also heard from Prevost and requested the meeting be in english, which he has agreed to.

I have about half an hour to make a presentation and he mentioned that another local resident would be attending so I suppose that is you Marlene. Awesome work on the letters!

There will be 4 commitee members, the CAO and Prevost attending.

Would you like to meet for lunch prior to the meeting? Or perhaps give me a call sometime this week.

Ken
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The presenting of this by-law to the UC Council has been pushed to October, as it is still under "review", so we can enjoy ourselves for about one more month. I am hoping that they are seriously considering giving us a place to ride, but we will see in October I guess.

We went to Larose again yesterday and had some good fun. My son went through big muddy ruts (for the first time! ) and steps with logs (for the first time!) and then back up those steps and logs as we had to turn around, this place is swampy, and he did GREAT! Seems a shame we cannot get the North Western part of the forest for ORMing, seems a bit dryer and the trails are really nice.

jcbmud.jpg
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi,

Can you please keep me posted as to any progress or lack of with regards to UCPR and the Larose Forest situation?

Thanks in Advance.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Marlene: Ken told us that your presentation last Thursday was VERY impressive and that you made a positive and favourable contribution. Good work! We will definitely keep you in the loop as best we can. Do Ed and Ken have contact info? Perhaps it could be forwarded to me? BTW Ken mentioned that it became quite obvious that the Larose staffers keep an eye on this forum.
 

KTMgirl73

New member
October 8, 2006

Dear Mr. Prevost,

I read your press release titled "Société, des nouvelles activités, on peut maintenant pratiquer l'équitation et le VTT dans la Forêt Larose" in the Carillon on October 4, 2006 and the advanced bilingual copy you sent me. I have to admit that I am completely surprised by this turn of events. No longer are you even speaking about the multi-use vehicle trails previously mentioned or allowing off-road motorcycles in the forest. It seems that an average person, wishing to enjoy off-road motorcycling or even four-wheeling activity within the Larose Forest will now be unable to do so, unless they join your exclusive ATV club of Eastern Ontario. Is this club representing me, an off-road motorcyclist? Are they representing some of my friends who are not members, but ride an ATV? AND, I am unable to join this club as they do not allow off-road motorcycles in their club. It seems to me that you have just signed over a public forest to an exclusive group, banned me and others like me, and are helping this exclusive club patrol their trails with the help of the OPP and Bylaw Officers, using my tax money to pay for these patrols. Where do I fit in here? Where do my children fit in here?

It seems to me that I did not make an impact on the Planning Committee when I spoke about my concerns; the lack of consideration by the UCPR of people like me wishing to ride an off-road motorcycle, the lack of safety in having my children ride on roads with cars traveling over 90 kilometers per hours, using large railroad gravel on trails which cause a motorcycle to be unstable, all to have my concerns completely ignored. I am left to feel like my right to be treated equally and fairly is definitely not something of importance to the UCPR.

I have joined the Bytown Motorcycle Association and the Ontario Federation of Trail Riders. The Bytown Motorcycle Association is a club that has tried unsuccessfully in the past to work towards an agreement similar to the one with the ATV club of Eastern Ontario. I joined in the hopes that the UCPR will listen to me and perhaps respect me (much like the ATV Club's interests are respected by the UCPR) now that I have clubs backing me similar to the ATV Club of Eastern Ontario. I still feel it is a shame that anyone wishing to enjoy off-road motorcycling or ATVing in the Larose Forest, has to join a club. It should be open to ALL.


Thank you,

Marlene Bleau
 

nickm

New member
the press release is unfortunate. Here's my 2 cents worth on what I see at Larose:

-on again/off again rules...dirt bikes allowed sometimes, not on other days...you will be threatened by ATV clubs reps that you will be charged with tresspassing on their property for riding around larose...interesting really considering that this so called private land is owned and managed by a very public municipal gov't.
-Anyone can randomly put up or take down signs, these signs change weekly, none of them seem to be put up by any authority, none of the signs have a consistent look or logo that would make them appear to be authentic or from the forest mgmt.
-Most of the trails have deep ruts in them caused by ATVs mud bogging.
-There is no regard to anyones safety, with trails exiting into a 90 km/h gravel rd & trails that run in any and every direction.
-The ATV club has a hall monitor that drives around the forest calling the bylaw officers on anyone riding a dirt bike (or using the trails for anything other than ATV use)
-There is no ride-throughs or trail cleanup happening...last time I was there a decapitated dead moose was in the middle of a trail..lovely scenery really.

All to say the forest management and the special interest groups have made a complete mess of what should be a wonderful place. The ATV group is essentially trying to make this their exclusive territory...an old boys club of sorts where you are either one of them or not of interest.
 

KTMgirl73

New member
News from the Larose Users' Committee Meeting.

For now, until probably spring, do not ride in the forest or you will be fined for trespassing. They are claiming the Trespass to Property Act. They said we should get access to some trails in the spring.
 

amuzme

New member
Thats interesting. If you live in the Counties it is your property.

I'll look into this next week and get back to you all.

Ken
 

KTMgirl73

New member
I have just spoken with Mr. Prevost. He wanted to again assure me that we will have trails in the spring, and that this decision was made as our riding season is pretty much finished for this year anyway, and asked if there was anyone from BMA who knew the forest well enough to suggest where these trails should be.

He also stated that we can ride in the forest right now on the roads and the few trails that have not been marked yet. But, the roads will be patrolled and tickets given at the OPP officers' discretion.
 

KTMgirl73

New member
Time for letter writing. Now is the perfect opportunity to make sure they keep us in mind when making future plans for the forest.


27 OCT. / OCT. 27, 2006 - LE/THE REGIONAL

United Counties Wants Your Opinion

Protection and Development of Larose Forest

The Larose Forest covers over 26,000 acres of public land. The United Counties of Prescott and Russell (UCPR), in collaboration with the Larose Forest Advisory Committee, is currently drawing up a Protection and Development Plan for the Larose Forest.

The forest is of great significance and importance to the region and its citizens, as such, the Counties wish to gather information, comments and suggestions from the population relating to the protection and development of the forest.

The Protection and Development Plan of the Larose Forest will encompass the central core of the forest that overlaps the City of Clarence-Rockland and The Nation Municipality.

The primary objective of the plan is to identify the various actual and potential uses inherent to the Larose Forest, with emphasis on wildlife habitat and conservation, forest management, recreation, economic benefits and landscape preservation.

The plan will also put great emphasis on the protection and development of the Larose Forest.

"It will propose management practices that will help maximize the multiple resource potentials of the Larose Forest".

The UCPR invites every citizen to make their opinion known and to forward their comments or suggestions. The information gathered will be used to develop a Protection and Development Plan that will reflect and conciliate the different interests of the population with the resources and potentials of the Larose Forest.

Written comments will be received until November 17, 2006. They may be sent by mail or E-mail to: United Counties of Prescott and Russell, Att. Louis Prevost, Director of Planning, 59 Court Street, P.O. Box 304, L'Orignal, Ontario, K0B 1K0 or at lprevost@prescott-russell.on.ca, 1-800-667-6307 ext. 7100.

Since the year 2000, the United Counties Planning Department has been responsible for the planning and management of this public forest. The Larose Forest plays an important environmental, cultural and social and economic role in the Prescott-Russell community.
 

nickm

New member
Food for thought, here are my 2 cents that I sent to the email address indicated above. I don't think everyone should agree with everything I've written here, but hoping it inspires everyone to take a minute to share their opinion with the counties. This might be a one time window of opportunity to set things straight.

Via E-mail: lprevost@prescott-russell.on.ca
United Counties of Prescott and Russell
Att. Louis Prevost, Director of Planning
59 Court Street, P.O. Box 304
L'Orignal, Ontario, K0B 1K0

"The primary objective of the plan is to identify the various actual and potential uses inherent to the Larose Forest, with emphasis on wildlife habitat and conservation, forest management, recreation, economic benefits and landscape preservation."

Some tactical suggestions to achieve these strategic objectives are:

1. A clearly marked system of trails and recreational areas, setting the base for an enforceable framework of forest use:
-Trails, much like roadways, are dependent on a set of consistent and enforceable rules. The trailways need to be improved such that they are clearly marked with a) their intended use b) directional markers indicating the flow of traffic and c) any warning or speed limit indicators
-Trails should be segregated for motorized vs. non-motorized use
-Exclusivity should not exist on any trail. All should be multi-use (ie: Motorcycle, ATV, Truck, other OHV). The only exception to this should be where a vehicle may not physically be able to make it through an area due to size (ie: a truck on a narrow trail).
-Any club or organization should only be relied on for consultive purposes, they should never be given ownership or any exclusive rights to a trail system
-Clear and official signage should exist at all trail entry points, throughout the trails, and in the parking areas. This signage must be maintained.
-Strict enforcement of the posted rules should apply.
-For OHVs there should be strict enforcement of the use of spark arrestors (to prevent fires), a 96db sound limit (this is the limit in use by the US Forestry service), and proper insurance and registration (Green plates minimum).
2. A Larose trail pass system should be established, making the trail system self funding and allowing for preservation of the forest:
-A unique opportunity to generate revenue to help preserve the forests exists. There are few Off Highway Vehicle areas in the region, and demand for OHV areas is large (as indicated by ATV and Motorcycle sales over the past few years)
-Larose Forest usage should be subject to annual trail pass fees.
-These fees should only exist for motorized use or for shooting range use, not for other non-motorized uses (ie: hiking, horseback riding, x-country ski etc)
-The issuance of a trail pass would be subject to meeting the above suggested rules of spark arrestors, 96db limit, and proper insurance/registration.
-The fees would help a) maintain signage b) pay for enforcement personel, c) aid in trail maintenance and d) establish a limited or controlled number of OHV users of the forest.
-A tiered pass system for residents vs. non residents would allow control over the total number of users and visitors.
-The economic benefit to local gas stations, restaurants, OHV establishments, and other stores would be much easier to establish when the forest user base is known.
-A known user base and trail pass system would allow local merchants to target their marketing to Larose forest users via discounts or other incentives.

I am hoping you find these suggestions helpful when forming your tactical plan to meet your overall strategy. Would be pleased to discuss further.[/b]
 

KTMgirl73

New member
Hello Everyone and Happy New Year! Here is the info regarding the Larose Planning Committee meeting to be held this month. I am counting on your support, so please take the time to come to this meeting. Thanks.

INVITATION À UNE SESSION D’INFORMATION SUR L’ÉLABORATION D’UN PLAN DE GESTION DE 20 ANS ET D’UN PLAN DE PROTECTION ET DE MISE EN VALEUR POUR LA FORÊT LAROSE
Le jeudi 25 janvier 2007 de 17h00 à 20h30
(Présentation formelle à 19h00)
Ferme Drouin à Casselman
1230, route 400 Casselman ON
Les Comtés unis de Prescott et Russell et le comité de foresterie de la Forêt Larose organisent une session d’information concernant l’élaboration d’un Plan de gestion de 20 ans et la préparation d’un Plan de protection et de mise en valeur pour la Forêt Larose. Étant donné la forte symbolique de cette forêt, les Comtés unis de Prescott et Russell désirent recueillir les commentaires et suggestions de la population quant à leurs attentes et préoccupations face à la protection et la mise en valeur de la Forêt Larose.
Les informations recueillies permettront d’élaborer un Plan de gestion de 20 ans et un Plan de protection et de mise en valeur qui conciliera le mieux possible les différents intérêts de la population, les ressources et les potentiels de cette forêt.
Pour de plus amples informations, veuillez téléphoner au 1 800 667-6307 poste 7100 ou par courriel à lprevost@prescott-russell.on.ca.

INVITATION TO ATTEND AN INFORMATION SESSION REGARDING THE PREPARATION OF A 20 YEAR MANAGEMENT PLAN AND A PROTECTION AND DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THE LAROSE FOREST
Thursday January 25th, 2007 from 5:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
(Formal Presentation at 7:00 p.m.)
Ferme Drouin à Casselman
1230 route 400 Casselman ON
The United Counties of Prescott and Russell along with the Larose Forest Advisory Committee are organizing an Information Session regarding the preparation of a 20 year Management Plan and the preparation of a Protection and Development Plan for the Larose Forest. The forest is of great significance and importance to the region and its citizens, as such, the Counties wish to gather information, comments and suggestions from the population relating to the protection and development of the forest.
The information gathered will be used to develop the 20 year Management Plan and the Protection and Development Plan that will reflect and conciliate the different interests of the population with the resources and potentials of the Larose Forest.
For more information, please call 1 800-667-6307 ext: 7100 or by email at lprevost@prescott-russell.on.ca.
 
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