O.K. folks; here it is in back and white and now is the time (see the previous post). We have been invited to participate in the process regarding the development of a management plan for Larose Forest. Your input and attendance on Jan. 25 is critically important. It would seem that this thread is being watched by a lot of riders who are not BMA members so if you want to protect your ability to ride in Larose then plan to be there. Yes, I know that we are all busy and have other things to do but please note that Marlene, Ed, Dale and Benoit can't do this all by themselves. I have been heavily involved in the formation of a new management plan for Limerick Forest and I can assure you that a healthy turnout of riders would open some eyes in Larose. A dozen BMA members simply isn't enough but 50+ concerned riders will let everyone know that we are serious. Talked to President Woody about this (he will be attending) and we need to deliver the message that we are willing to develop and maintain a shared use single track trail system in Larose. So, if you care about keeping your riding area opened then get off your ass and get there. If you choose not to attend then don't even think about whining if we lose Larose for riding. Special note: although we are all upset by the current situation in Larose, please voice your discontent in a reasonably polite manner. Being a loud obnoxious jerk just isn't going to help us out at all. Our voices will be heard if we deliver our message in a calm and controlled manner.
KTMgirl73
New member
I would like to thank all those who came last night. I really appreciated it.
We have a lot of prejudice to overcome when dealing with local residents and UCPR, with a lot of people thinking we are all hooligans and troublemakers, with loud bikes, BUT I think if we continue to participate in these public meetings, talk to people and explain the options currently available to us (after market quiet pipes, our groups rules of conduct, etc..) and actually show them what we really are, I think sooner or later, they will start to see us as positive members of the community.
It will take a lot of time to accomplish this, peoples mind don't change overnight.
We have a lot of prejudice to overcome when dealing with local residents and UCPR, with a lot of people thinking we are all hooligans and troublemakers, with loud bikes, BUT I think if we continue to participate in these public meetings, talk to people and explain the options currently available to us (after market quiet pipes, our groups rules of conduct, etc..) and actually show them what we really are, I think sooner or later, they will start to see us as positive members of the community.
It will take a lot of time to accomplish this, peoples mind don't change overnight.
After getting completely lost, Brenda and I made it to last night's meeting just as the presentation was starting. Too bad about being late, we were hoping to get there in time to meet some of the BMA members.
The overall mood seemed to carry a strong opposition to motorcycle usage. It's obvious the local community who oppose do not have a good understanding of the principles of clubs like the BMA, OFTR, etc. I think regardless of the final usage decision, it's important for them to be clear on this. There may also be the perception that visitors from neighbouring areas have no respect for the forest or the local community.
Marlene Bleau and Ed Miller both did a good job expressing sincere views on the difference of a trail rider enjoying the bush and an 100+ dB mx rider ripping it up. The motocross reference was thrown around a lot. Many locals have had bad experiences and now it looks like they see all motorcyclists in the same light. Honestly the majority of points were missed by Brenda and I. Unfortunately we don't speak french.
The lady from the horse club made good points on the sandy nature of Larose and potential for trail damage. If her statements are accurate (I've never been to the forest) is there a good response from the motorcycle community that could address her concern? Also I'm curious as to what the extent of the current damage is and exactly what has caused it, ATVs, 4x4s, logging contractors? There was also concern on the heightened risk of fire as the forest becomes more travelled. I wasn't sure if they meant risk from smokers or motorized vehicles. I wonder if they know about spark arrestors.
The gentleman from the Limerick planning board (don't recall his name) made a great suggestion to the Larose planners to borrow from the experience of other forest management teams who have implemented similar long term strategies. Unfortunately I think it may have fell on deaf ears.
Rob Poitras
The overall mood seemed to carry a strong opposition to motorcycle usage. It's obvious the local community who oppose do not have a good understanding of the principles of clubs like the BMA, OFTR, etc. I think regardless of the final usage decision, it's important for them to be clear on this. There may also be the perception that visitors from neighbouring areas have no respect for the forest or the local community.
Marlene Bleau and Ed Miller both did a good job expressing sincere views on the difference of a trail rider enjoying the bush and an 100+ dB mx rider ripping it up. The motocross reference was thrown around a lot. Many locals have had bad experiences and now it looks like they see all motorcyclists in the same light. Honestly the majority of points were missed by Brenda and I. Unfortunately we don't speak french.
The lady from the horse club made good points on the sandy nature of Larose and potential for trail damage. If her statements are accurate (I've never been to the forest) is there a good response from the motorcycle community that could address her concern? Also I'm curious as to what the extent of the current damage is and exactly what has caused it, ATVs, 4x4s, logging contractors? There was also concern on the heightened risk of fire as the forest becomes more travelled. I wasn't sure if they meant risk from smokers or motorized vehicles. I wonder if they know about spark arrestors.
The gentleman from the Limerick planning board (don't recall his name) made a great suggestion to the Larose planners to borrow from the experience of other forest management teams who have implemented similar long term strategies. Unfortunately I think it may have fell on deaf ears.
Rob Poitras
Richard L.
New member
If the lady from the horse club thinks that motorcycles do more damage to trails than horses...she needs her head examined.
This is all starting to sound familiar to the Ganaraska battle several years ago i was involved with.
Use the MMIC as a resource for studies that have been done. They have a boat load...including trail damage by user groups as well as wildlife impact studies....walkers can have the greatest impact on wildlife.
Get a copy of the Ganaraska study done by John Marsh...Ken H. should have it.
Make sure to use the Ganny, Simcoe County, Northumberland forests as a reference
Trails do make good fire breaks...at least for ground fires.
But under there logic the Ganny should be charred to a crisp by now.
Good forestry management prevents forest fires more than anything....this from what I've seen in the Ganny. Healthy trees do not like to go up in smoke.
Keep politely pushing away at it.
And throw information by the boat load at these people...whether they want it or not.....nothing to lose.
Dig up some economic impact studies that have been done (MMIC)
$$$$$$$$$$count for something within local economies
Talk to any Chamber's of Commerce...get local business on our side.
Started a thread on ODSC http://www.odsc.on.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=8823
see if more help/ideas can come forth
This is all starting to sound familiar to the Ganaraska battle several years ago i was involved with.
Use the MMIC as a resource for studies that have been done. They have a boat load...including trail damage by user groups as well as wildlife impact studies....walkers can have the greatest impact on wildlife.
Get a copy of the Ganaraska study done by John Marsh...Ken H. should have it.
Make sure to use the Ganny, Simcoe County, Northumberland forests as a reference
Trails do make good fire breaks...at least for ground fires.
But under there logic the Ganny should be charred to a crisp by now.
Good forestry management prevents forest fires more than anything....this from what I've seen in the Ganny. Healthy trees do not like to go up in smoke.
Keep politely pushing away at it.
And throw information by the boat load at these people...whether they want it or not.....nothing to lose.
Dig up some economic impact studies that have been done (MMIC)
$$$$$$$$$$count for something within local economies
Talk to any Chamber's of Commerce...get local business on our side.
Started a thread on ODSC http://www.odsc.on.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=8823
see if more help/ideas can come forth
The Lanark County Forest committe (with Woody is amember fighting for our rights) are very close allies with the equestrian group, and probably will be with the Larose Forest equestrian group.
Even Woody finds it hard to believe that horses do more damage than motorcycles. What do they do? Fertilize the forest?
We need allies in the fight for our rights, not enemys. Lets not make any.
Even Woody finds it hard to believe that horses do more damage than motorcycles. What do they do? Fertilize the forest?
We need allies in the fight for our rights, not enemys. Lets not make any.
Richard L.
New member
Horses and there Hooves!! It really disturbs the soil, loosens it and destroys vegetation, which all leads to erosion with heavy rains. Motorcycles have a MUCH smaller foot print, plus (when not goosing it) does not loosen the soil....MMIC can provide the studies.
Equestrian Groups understand...some individuals do not
Dealing with user "Groups" is not the issue......it's the loud mouth individual(s) who become the problem.
Build friends with the "user groups"...you bet :!: and educate them all. Hopeful the info gets back to the loud mouth via there user group.
Ask a MTB user what it is like to ride a trail after horses have been through... especially in sand.
All of this HAS been dealt with in the Ganaraska. Make use of this resource!!
All user groups need to understand that THEY could be on a hit list next...so lets all work together.
Besides this http://www.odsc.on.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=8752 legislation could put all user groups out to dry.
All user groups would do well if they'd only be willing to work together, but why does it seem only we motorcyclist are the only ones to get That??
Equestrian Groups understand...some individuals do not
Dealing with user "Groups" is not the issue......it's the loud mouth individual(s) who become the problem.
Build friends with the "user groups"...you bet :!: and educate them all. Hopeful the info gets back to the loud mouth via there user group.
Ask a MTB user what it is like to ride a trail after horses have been through... especially in sand.
All of this HAS been dealt with in the Ganaraska. Make use of this resource!!
All user groups need to understand that THEY could be on a hit list next...so lets all work together.
Besides this http://www.odsc.on.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=8752 legislation could put all user groups out to dry.
All user groups would do well if they'd only be willing to work together, but why does it seem only we motorcyclist are the only ones to get That??
KTMgirl73
New member
Thanks for all your info guys.
Ken H. brought documentation regarding Simcoe County for the UCPR last August. When asked this week, they had not even looked at it and weren't sure they had it. I hope this gives you an idea as to what mentioning other successful multi-use forests does to the UCPR. I have mentioned to UPCR repeatedly to look at Limerick and Ganaraska as examples, mentioned it again at the public meeting, but I doubt they will ever do it. They just don't want to know.
Ken H. brought documentation regarding Simcoe County for the UCPR last August. When asked this week, they had not even looked at it and weren't sure they had it. I hope this gives you an idea as to what mentioning other successful multi-use forests does to the UCPR. I have mentioned to UPCR repeatedly to look at Limerick and Ganaraska as examples, mentioned it again at the public meeting, but I doubt they will ever do it. They just don't want to know.
KTMgirl73
New member
At the outcome of your presentation to the Planning Committee last August, you were informed that the United Counties were prepared to work with the BMA to establish a temporary trail network in the Larose Forest for this spring until the final completion of the Protection and Development Plan.
As you were able to witness during the January 25, 2007 public meeting, there is a significant amount of opposition towards motorized vehicle uses in the Larose Forest. As a result, County Council decided yesterday that it will not allow the establishment of any new trail networks within the Larose Forest until at least the completion of the Protection and Development Plan. This project is expected to be completed by next fall. I wish to inform you that the anticipated temporary trail network for the BMA will therefore not be possible at the present time.
Sincerely,
Louis Prévost, MCIP, RPP
As you were able to witness during the January 25, 2007 public meeting, there is a significant amount of opposition towards motorized vehicle uses in the Larose Forest. As a result, County Council decided yesterday that it will not allow the establishment of any new trail networks within the Larose Forest until at least the completion of the Protection and Development Plan. This project is expected to be completed by next fall. I wish to inform you that the anticipated temporary trail network for the BMA will therefore not be possible at the present time.
Sincerely,
Louis Prévost, MCIP, RPP
KTMgirl73
New member
Sent to:
jean-yves.lalonde@sympatico.ca; gary.barton@champlain.ca; Nationmaire@cyberus.ca; jcharlebois@hawkesbury.ca; kenhill@twp.russell.on.ca
cc: spparisien@prescott-russell.on.ca; LPrevost@prescott-russell.on.ca; nouvelles@eap.on.ca; editor@thereview.on.ca
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing to you today to let you know of my deep disappointment in your decision not allow off-road motorcyclists a place in the Larose Forest. The reason stated was the significant amount of opposition towards motorized vehicles at the January 25, 2007 meeting. I was present, as were some of you, and did not feel a significant amount of opposition to motorized vehicles. I was expecting, mostly because of the comments made by Mr. Prevost before the meeting, that there would be many more negative comments. I heard a lot of negative comments regarding ATVs ruining the fire roads, causing huge ruts so that a person cannot even walk the trails any more, ATVs driving along the road and causing noise and smoke pollution (I believe one man called it "a cloud of black smoke"). Are they still allowed in the forest?
My opinion: Less than five citizens voicing their concerns, especially ones that can so easily be addressed with noise restriction and a code of conduct within the forest for all users, is not a valid reason not to allow us the use of some already existing single-track trails within the forest. As I stated, these concerns can be dealt with very easily, if you were willing work with us. I do not believe you ever truly intended to work with BMA.
I had starting planning a family day ride at the forest with all proceeds to go to a local charity called Motorcyclist Against Childhood Cancer of Bourget, but now I see that this will not be a possibility, and should I want to continue planning such an activity for such an important cause, I will need to go outside the United Counties to do this as there is nowhere within the counties for an off-road motorcyclist to ride.
Again, I am very disappointed in you, MY councilors, who are obviously not considering me of any significance. This is vehicular discrimination.
Marlene Bleau
BMA member and resident of UCPR.
P.S. Mr. Parisien, please forward to Mr. Kirby as he does not have a listed e-mail address.
jean-yves.lalonde@sympatico.ca; gary.barton@champlain.ca; Nationmaire@cyberus.ca; jcharlebois@hawkesbury.ca; kenhill@twp.russell.on.ca
cc: spparisien@prescott-russell.on.ca; LPrevost@prescott-russell.on.ca; nouvelles@eap.on.ca; editor@thereview.on.ca
Dear Sirs and Madam:
I am writing to you today to let you know of my deep disappointment in your decision not allow off-road motorcyclists a place in the Larose Forest. The reason stated was the significant amount of opposition towards motorized vehicles at the January 25, 2007 meeting. I was present, as were some of you, and did not feel a significant amount of opposition to motorized vehicles. I was expecting, mostly because of the comments made by Mr. Prevost before the meeting, that there would be many more negative comments. I heard a lot of negative comments regarding ATVs ruining the fire roads, causing huge ruts so that a person cannot even walk the trails any more, ATVs driving along the road and causing noise and smoke pollution (I believe one man called it "a cloud of black smoke"). Are they still allowed in the forest?
My opinion: Less than five citizens voicing their concerns, especially ones that can so easily be addressed with noise restriction and a code of conduct within the forest for all users, is not a valid reason not to allow us the use of some already existing single-track trails within the forest. As I stated, these concerns can be dealt with very easily, if you were willing work with us. I do not believe you ever truly intended to work with BMA.
I had starting planning a family day ride at the forest with all proceeds to go to a local charity called Motorcyclist Against Childhood Cancer of Bourget, but now I see that this will not be a possibility, and should I want to continue planning such an activity for such an important cause, I will need to go outside the United Counties to do this as there is nowhere within the counties for an off-road motorcyclist to ride.
Again, I am very disappointed in you, MY councilors, who are obviously not considering me of any significance. This is vehicular discrimination.
Marlene Bleau
BMA member and resident of UCPR.
P.S. Mr. Parisien, please forward to Mr. Kirby as he does not have a listed e-mail address.