Insurance for my kid

RLefebvre

New member
Just got off the phone with NFP which used to be Dalton Timmis, and spoke with Kyle Brown who handles the off-road bike program which many have probably heard of. Had a long conversation with him.

So they do insure off-road bikes, but it's similar to TD. They don't distinguish on/off road, so you're paying for a road policy. He said something like a CRF110F, if somebody in the house has an M license with 3 stars, is typically around $250, which is similar to TD. If you don't have your M license... going to be much worse.

However, two important points to know: They do not sell insurance for kids under 10. And they do not sell insurance for bikes under 100cc. Similar stupid thinking as Desjardins. They assume that size goes with cc, and trying to avoid kids they set the limit at 100cc. So I could insure the CRF110F for my 10 year old, but not the CRF80F for my 14 year old. So this isn't an option for us.

Also remember that to get this policy in any case, you have to bring your home and auto insurance over as well.
 

Trevd

New member
manotickmike":8hcbo2lc said:
I don't have any "skin" in this game, but unless something changes, this sport sure will.
Shrinking areas, shrinking access, increasing legislation, and no viable way to be legally compliant is going to terminate the entrance to the activity.

You said it.

I took my 50 year old buddy out the other day to Limerick to ride my daughter's CRF100. It was his first time on a motorcycle in 15 years, and first time (ever I think) on a dirt bike. He bought the Limerick Forest/OFTR 2 day pass for $35 so he could ride. My daughter's bike is "grandfathered" in with Desjardins so it's insured.

He had a great time, was pretty cautious as newbie 50 year olds probably usually are, but had fun. He's a small guy, so the 100, while small, was probably perfect for his first time out, and would probably be good for him for a while. I was thinking yesterday that if he wanted to get into this seriously and buy a bike, he would have issues. He would probably be better off for the first year on a 125 or a 140 or 150. But because of the insurance situation, he would probably have to start on a 230, the smallest bike he could buy and properly insure for a reasonable amount. A 230 would probably be quite intimidating for him, not to mention more expensive to get into. It would probably also be more dangerous for him. So he may just forget about the whole thing altogether. Or buy the 230, scare the crap out of himself a time or two, and then give up.

So instead of having a potentially new rider starting out small and improving his skills before moving up to something bigger, we may have a new rider who gives up before he even starts, because of insurance issues. I'm not saying that will happen with this guy, but I could totally see it happening, either with him or with someone else.

The insurance industry is actually harming itself while it encourages people to start on bikes that are too big for them, which will slow their learning curve, which will theoretically increase the odds of them causing an insurance claim. Unless the insurance industry is just trying to eliminate dirt riding altogether, and is just taking the long approach, so that in 20 years all of us old guys won't be in it anymore and there will be no young ones able to start up.

Frustrating to say the least.
 

mart242

Member
Trevd":3keqdz8g said:
The insurance industry is actually harming itself while it encourages people to start on bikes that are too big for them, which will slow their learning curve, which will theoretically increase the odds of them causing an insurance claim. Unless the insurance industry is just trying to eliminate dirt riding altogether, and is just taking the long approach, so that in 20 years all of us old guys won't be in it anymore and there will be no young ones able to start up.

Let's be realistic, I doubt that many people will ever claim for an off road accident if they ever want to keep riding after. A single claim would likely be a death sentence with regards to insurance. They are simply avoiding off road insurance because it's too much of a hassle for too little return
 

RLefebvre

New member
mart242":1pp0oo7w said:
Trevd":1pp0oo7w said:
They are simply avoiding off road insurance because it's too much of a hassle for too little return

I don't think it's that. If it were, they would not be selling my Dad vintage motorcycle insurance for his 1967 CB175 for $80/year. And they seem happy to do it, as they didn't try to force him to bring all his policies over, or not. IMO, this is just an example of the privilege of being an old white guy doing old white guy things. (And I say that being a middle-aged white guy)

Anyway, I thought I came back here and updated before but I guess I didn't.

I ended up being able to buy a policy for the family dirtbikes from TD Insurance. Came out to $200-250 each. That's more than I was paying at State Farm, $80. But... it's the only option now. Basically the deal is, they are all insured under my name. TD does not distinguish for off-road or on-road. They're all assumed to be on-road. They offer OCPF 32 for $0, which means everybody else is actually covered while off-road. I'll also be switching my street bikes, and probably my home and auto with them as well as their rates are pretty good. With the savings I will get on the auto policies, it will effectively cut the cost of the dirtbike insurance in half. So overall, it's not terrible.

So that's that. Go to TD while you still can. FYI, I also talked to the dirtbike guy at Dalton Timmis. Their prices were similar to TD, but they *force* you to bring everything over, and their auto rates were high.

Now that the weather has cooled off for a bit, we're off to Limerick!
 

CanadianMohawk

New member
Here's my update. The Co-Operators insured my crf70f with the OPCF32 addition to it.

What i can't say, is whether any of my other insurance items were any sort of reason they would do it. My personal situation is that the Co-operators Group insurance (that i am with) dropped their underwriter (COSECO) whom told me they would not insure any bikes under 150cc for anyone, regardless of age, when i called them 2 months ago. As luck would have it, they moved to having the regulator Co-operators as their underwriter and so I called them today and they said yes. I'm happy with that even though i think the price should be cheaper (190/yr), but I'll take what i can get.
 

DualSportDude

New member
My experience with trying to secure insurance on a 1996 Yamaha PW 80:

I called:

OFTR sponsors: George Rappos and Nicole McCann of Desjardins Insurance. They no longer insure motorcycles under 150cc.
NFP Insurance: Does not insure.
Cooperators: Does not insure, referred me to Rider's Plus Insurance.
Rider's Plus does not insurance off-road motorcycles.
Called Mike Reid in Kanata, Ontario. They don't insure under 150cc. They referred me to Guardsman.
I was referred to Guardsman Insurance in Stittsville, Ontario. Left a message to be called back. No reply so far.

Currently on the phone with TD Insurance and the quote is $287 for an 80cc motorcycle.....

Alan
 

Trevd

New member
I would urge people that are having trouble finding insurance for their kids to contact the OFTR to see if they've made any progress on this. When I contacted them last year they said that they were looking at making it a priority this year.

I wonder if they are, because they really should be.

Trevor
 

Trevd

New member
Just a follow up - I contacted the OFTR again this morning to see where they are at with this, and Arthur Ash (past president) replied saying that they are working with the manufacturers and that they really need them to step up and take charge of it with the gov't and/or insurance industry.

Not being content to sit by, this afternoon I sent an email to The Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario (FSRA), who's mandate is "to protect consumers and enhance confidence in our regulated sectors" which includes the auto insurance industry.
I also sent and email to the Ontario Minister of Finance, and to the Premier of Ontario.

In the email I spoke about what a ridiculous situation we're in in this province when it comes to insuring small dirt bikes, and the frustration it is causing, and how it's especially frustrating that it's happening during these pandemic times when families need fun, safe activities to do. There has to be something that can be done.

If I get any type of meaningful response, I'll post it here.
 

CanadianMohawk

New member
@DualSportDude makes no sense Co-operators told you no? They insured mine? Did you ask to insure it under your own name? Like Robert did with TD, my crf70f they just insured for me a few weeks ago, is registered and insured as 'my' bike. With the OPCF32, unlicensed riders are insured for liability off-road. Why different answer for different people. wtf.
 

CanadianMohawk

New member
Just a follow up - I contacted the OFTR again this morning to see where they are at with this, and Arthur Ash (past president) replied saying that they are working with the manufacturers and that they really need them to step up and take charge of it with the gov't and/or insurance industry.

Not being content to sit by, this afternoon I sent an email to The Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario (FSRA), who's mandate is "to protect consumers and enhance confidence in our regulated sectors" which includes the auto insurance industry.
I also sent and email to the Ontario Minister of Finance, and to the Premier of Ontario.

In the email I spoke about what a ridiculous situation we're in in this province when it comes to insuring small dirt bikes, and the frustration it is causing, and how it's especially frustrating that it's happening during these pandemic times when families need fun, safe activities to do. There has to be something that can be done.

If I get any type of meaningful response, I'll post it here.
appreciate the initiative on this Trevd. Keep us in the loop.
 

Trevd

New member
appreciate the initiative on this Trevd. Keep us in the loop.

Well, the FSRA responded to me saying that they only follow legislation and that if I wanted legislation changed I'd have to talk to the government. They gave me link to how to start a petition for the Legislature. https://www.ola.org/en/get-involved/petitions

The Premier's office told me that the FSRA handles auto insurance issues and to contact them.

I believe this is what is often refereed to as "the runaround".
 

TAMX

New member
This is all a little frustrating to read. Bought my 12 yr old a ttr125 and have been planning on riding at the BMA’s area 31 as it’s really close. To have to pay this much for insurance, if I can get it, is banana’s.
I’ve always been an MX guy, for those of you with kids in the Ottawa area, it may be better to just buy a pass from MX101 for Sand del lee.
There’s a kids track and even a kids club Saturday morning where no adults ride at the start of the morning.
Gone are the days where it’s just hardcore racers out there. It’s all dads and kids for the most part and I see why.
BMA really seems to have a good thing going, too bad government makes it harder on the clubs and riders.
 

CanadianMohawk

New member
Well, the FSRA responded to me saying that they only follow legislation and that if I wanted legislation changed I'd have to talk to the government. They gave me link to how to start a petition for the Legislature. https://www.ola.org/en/get-involved/petitions

The Premier's office told me that the FSRA handles auto insurance issues and to contact them.

I believe this is what is often refereed to as "the runaround".
dislike. :(
 

Scott

Member
We were stopped by the OPP at Limerick last Friday. We asked if they had an issue if a kids bike was owned and insured under the parents name. The answer was No - so long as the bike was insured. I believe its $140 for an uninsured bike on the trail.
However, there may be issues if you tried to put in a claim.
 
We were stopped by the OPP at Limerick last Friday. We asked if they had an issue if a kids bike was owned and insured under the parents name. The answer was No - so long as the bike was insured. I believe its $140 for an uninsured bike on the trail.
However, there may be issues if you tried to put in a claim.

This is not the issue, my kids' bike insurance was always under my name, but now I can't get insurance because of the 150cc requirement, even for my wife's bike ...
It doesn't make sense that the only options come with a premium that makes a 50cc off-road insurance more expensive than for my on-road bike.
Sadly, I gave up and sold all their bikes and got them into a different sport.
 
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benb

New member
Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread so far. I have spent hours struggling to find insurance for my kids' CRF80F and I wish I had found this thread sooner.

I first started with TD, which I already use for home, auto and my ATV. The lady I spoke with on the phone told me they didn't insure motorcycles. Any motorcycle. I even challenged her by saying that they insure ATVs but not bikes? She didn't budge. I gave up with her and continued to look elsewhere. Desjardins, Co-Operators, All-State, no cigar! As mentioned before, most brokers do not insure bikes with CC's this low. For example, All-State insures off-road bikes with cc's starting at 90... What? Also I would need to move my home and auto policies to them on top of satisfying a long list of requirements about past claims, speeding tickets, prior convictions. I have half-expecting the broker to tell me I would also have to quit my job and start to work for them! They don't make this easy.

Anyway, the cc limit was a deal breaker with All-State so I was running out of options. I ended up finding this thread (thanks again). After reading about everyone's struggles and banging my head on the table about my false start with TD, I went full circle and called them up again. In their automated answering message they don't say anything about motorcycle policies but they do on their website pretty clearly. Anyway, I ended up talking to a nice, energetic guy who was super pumped at the low premium of $291/yr they were offering me for barebones coverage! They don't differentiate between road bikes and off-road bikes so that's probably why it seemed cheap to him. Also because of this, you need an M license, which I fortunately got in my 20s when I thought it would be wise to get my license at a young age to get a break on premiums later in life (I didn't realize then that just having a license doesn't make you a lower risk to them). Anyway that ended up paying off in getting me passed the gate. I can't imagine how pissed I would be if I didn't have this license.
 
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