Dual Sport topic

[weekender]

Currently the BMA forum has the "General Discussion" and the "Advertisements" sections. While attending the BMA meeting earlier in the week I started wondering if it would be a good idea to create a "Dual Sport" section since it seems we are going to try to cater to these riders as well.

Then I read this thread which re-enforces the idea: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307800

It seems some people think we are a "racing" club... I think having a "Dual Sport" section in the forum would quickly indicate that racing is only a fraction of what the BMA is about.

Thoughts?

 

[ktmkevin]

Just a clarification: we had a discussion a few years ago at the AGM and determined that our mandate is as a "trail riding" club. Yes, we do some competitive events but trail riding is our focus. Thought this fact should be mentioned.

 

[RnR]

Many see the BMA as a racing club? This shouldn't surprise anyone. My perception after being with the club for a year now is slightly, but not completely different. To me the BMA is a hard core trail riding club. The senior executive and long time members are very skilled, knowledgeable riders. It follows that they are fast and enjoy challenging trails. To be critical I think the club's definition of a beginner or casual rider is a bit off the mean and this is what contributes to the "racing" characterization. Maybe this means that membership in the BMA may be over some of our heads. I asked myself that question more than once at last years spring Calabogie ride. I'm not complaining. If the people that have sustained and driven this organization don't want to always cater to more junior riders, thats fine. It's up to us in this category to either raise our skills and/or find a fit. Finding a fit may be something like Dave's trying to do - establishing a dual sport presence. And there are opportunities to raise skills such as Kevin's Calabogie 101 (couldn't make it last year ... Kevin, hope you do a repeat this year). There's also the family ride and boogie, where the trails are marked and a person can run at their own pace.

On the dual sport topic - I don't think there was time at the Cheshire Cat meeting to give it the attention deserved. There were a couple of generalizations, I won't repeat here, that I thought were pretty unfair. One thing I would like clarification on is that dual sport events organized under the club would bring special liability issues. Why would the liability concern be different than any other BMA sanctioned event? Another point made was how can a DS rider be convinced to pay the membership? I suppose the two big hitters are, 1) organized rides, and 2) protection of riding areas. Blue plates don't automatically give a right to ride any trail. If Larry's correct, trail passes will be a reality for off roaders in the near future. Who knows how many km of Ontario trails today require an ATV pass? I don't think a blue plate will get a two wheeler into Larose. From what I've read there's got to be a thousand km or so of ATV controlled trails in the Madawaska Highlands and area. I'd say there's good value in being part of one of the groups that is channeling funds into the lobby that protects off road motorcycle riding interests.

Providing the DS crowd in our area an alternative to the ODSC makes good sense, especially those that don't join because it's a Toronto based club. Having it operate under the auspices of the BMA is even better.

Rob

 

[Doug]

It seems some people think we are a "racing" club... I think having a "Dual Sport" section in the forum would quickly indicate that racing is only a fraction of what the BMA is about.
Thoughts?

It certainly can't hurt anything to have a few more specialized sub forums here. That said, the "general" forum isn't exactly overloaded with activity and I've never seen a posting for "dual sport ride leaving this weekend, contact Joe", etc., thread as with trail rides. Too bad...that's at least partly what this is for.

However (as we are famous for) will DS riders also just wait for someone else to organize it... while at the same time saying "they" should do this and "they" should do that? :wink:

If we think a dedicated forum will start that...then go for it. One of the advantages of the club is to provide such a forum (electronic or otherwise!) for people to meet up and organize their own impromptu rides without needing to be planned for months, part of a "series" or otherwise served up on a platter! It doesn't mean we can't do that too...but to start just put something on the table....anything, and see where it goes!

 

[msnider]

i ride dualsports (klr650) every other weekend and have been with the club for several years.in all the times i have posted rides i have had only one response.i know there are dualsport riders in the bma but good luck trying to get them out.

 

[105 rider]

I'm sure that if a DS came forward at a club meeting, and said that he/she wanted to put on an event, the club would be willing to back it.
I'm sure many non DS would be willing to help, but you would need a DS to head the organization of the event.

 

[ktmkevin]

Well, since I seem to be incapable of saying nothing (ask anyone who knows me).....here goes:
1) If we are perceived as a "racing" club then we clearly need to work on our image. But Rob brings forward an interesting point: yes, we probably don't do enough to for new inexperienced riders and, yes, the skill level amongst the veterans can be intimidating to newbies. There has been some discussion about how to attack this problem but no clear path forward has been established. But, to be fair, I don't think new members have been taking advantage of the opportunities the club presents. Our club rides offer excellent chances to get acquainted with the Calabogie area and we always have a leader for less experienced riders. Sometimes it's hard to cater to slightly differing ability levels but, usually, things go well. We also have the Family Ride in Limerick where easier terrain is arrowed and available for riders to go at their own pace. But, strangely, this event was VERY lightly attended last year. What gives? And there is always the Boogie; in years past we tried a one day guided ride within the Boogie for inexperienced riders but dropped it because of poor attendance. So, the opportunities are there; can anyone explain to me what the problem is? I would assume that if someone spends the money for a membership that they would be interested in attending our rides. If not, why buy a membership?
2) Some discussions have been ongoing regarding the dualsport idea. Although impressions from the last meeting may differ, generally speaking, everyone supports the idea and we only need to work out some details. None of the problems pointed out at the meeting are insurmountable or a deal breaker. We now have some people to champion the idea and run with it so, speaking personally, I am reasonably confident that the dualsport plan will take flight this year.

 

[tj]

But Rob brings forward an interesting point: yes, we probably don't do enough to for new inexperienced riders and, yes, the skill level amongst the veterans can be intimidating to newbies.
.

But, strangely, this event was VERY lightly attended last year. What gives?

Kevin, I think your statement above answers your own question.

I'm a new rider (2 years ago) and a dual-sport rider, and I very quickly gave up on participating in club rides when it quite clear to me there were either no events for a beginner (or schedule conflicts, admittedly).

However, you are also right in that things are improving. Having been involved in sweep for day 1 of last year's Boogie, I can agree that it's becoming easier. (But I still think it's almost beyond beginner, and day 2's easy loop of the boogie was definitely beyond beginner.)

In any case, it's going to take time and effort for the club to shed its current reputation. Adding dual-sport orientation is one method of helping do do that, so hopefully, something will come of this.

 

[RLueders]

So what is wrong with creating another section for dual sporting. It at least gives them a common area to set up rides, discuss their form of riding etc.
From a forum administration standpoint it's no big deal to set it up.

I would think that the BMA would welcome any way to attract new members by branching out in other areas.

That's my $0.02

Richard Lueders

 

[davemack]

+1


thanks
dave

So what is wrong with creating another section for dual sporting. It at least gives them a common area to set up rides, discuss their form of riding etc.
From a forum administration standpoint it's no big deal to set it up.

I would think that the BMA would welcome any way to attract new members by branching out in other areas.

That's my $0.02

Richard Lueders

 

[KTMgirl73]

But, strangely, this event was VERY lightly attended last year. What gives? And there is always the Boogie; in years past we tried a one day guided ride within the Boogie for inexperienced riders but dropped it because of poor attendance. So, the opportunities are there; can anyone explain to me what the problem is?

For me, I did not attend the Boogie or the Boogie101 because my son rides a 65 cc and this bike, as I was told, was not appropriate for the Boogie. We want to ride as a family, not get the kids babysat so we can go out and ride. If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't have sold my monster and bought a dirt bike....

As for the Family Ride, as I recall I woke you up to ask if the ride was still on as it was pouring rain out. :wink: your welcome! Perhaps others thought it was canceled due to the weather?

 

[shipwrek12001]

That was my post on the advrider. 1st: Sorry if I have offended anyone!! Was not my intention.

I bought my bike a year ago, and this year have started looking into joining a club. When I go through the bma web site, it boosts hare scrambles, enduro races, ice racing. and count it 2 yes two family rides which are not posted yet for this year. one in limerick and one in caliboogie. I have absolutely no issues paying the 80$ to be a club member, but look at this for a moment. I get for $80, two events which I'm guessing $50 or so sign up or event fee. And don't forget the 4hrs of event helping. I believe this adds to near 175$. So what I have here, is near $200 + expenses to ride for 2 days. Would you sign up? It really has to be something spectacular! It probably is but lets convince the bank manager to put out for the 2 days.

Now it must be frustrating to read this and you know differently, well I can only read what is posted. And keeping up with posting from advrider, bma, odsc, is near imposible. I have not logged into here in 3 month as this site moves rather slower. I am glad to see your atleast looking into helping the other types of riders get involved.

Someone is going to post something about the meetings you have and to go. well I feel I would be sitting around listening to the bench racing, and feel I was out of place. Maybe I'm wrong. I believe I heard someone was there owning a honda translap. Was he out of place?

So this is how I feel, regarding the BMA, I will still probably join for this year and see how it goes, I promised someone I would go on an enduro run and see how it would go.

drz400s vs ktm300exc which bike is in the wrong place. Depends on what we are doing.......

 

[105 rider]

Just wanted to let you know, that when you join the BMA, $50 of your $80 goes to the OFTR, and you receive a subscription to the Inside Motorcycle magazine. One of the things that the OFTR uses the money for is to fight to keep riding areas open for everyone, among may other things.
Really, our club only has 2 races a year (excluding the iceracing)The 2 hour in the spring and the 4 hour in the fall, whose proceeds go to charity. Our other rides are the spring ride, fall ride, Calabogie Boogie, and the Limerick kids ride, and they are all rides, not races. The spring ride and fall ride are geared towards everyone. This year we are also including a family day.
At our meetings, there is no bench racing going on during the meeting. We are all there to take care of business, which includes planning upcoming events, and making sure we have enough volunteers for the events.
I hope this has cleared up any doubts you may have had about our club.

 

[ktmkevin]

Please bear with me hear as I am gritting my teeth and trying to choose my words very carefully. I promised myself I would try to cut down on expressing my opinions on the forum after getting somewhat rebuked on this thread but I just can't take it any longer!
It seems to me that a lot of people are not giving the BMA a fair chance and judging us solely by reading the website. Yes, it would be great if we could run a trail ride for novices every two weeks or so (and all sorts of other stuff) but this points out a core issue that a lot of people within the BMA don't seem to be aware of (or don't care to acknowledge): 99% of everything that the BMA does is accomplished by 10-12 people. This core group has taken on responsibility for years now for everything from trail rides (easy to plan) to the Boogie (HUGE logistics and preparation task). And I see advanced signs of burnout taking place as some of the regulars are stepping back. Remember that the BMA is a volunteer organization and you can only reasonable ask so much. Everyone in the core group has taken time to lead novices on a trail ride and we all, I'm sure, get a certain amount of satisfaction from the smiles on faces at the end of the day but we all ALSO want to have some Sundays to go hardcore riding with our buddies.
I'm not whining here; simply pointing out the facts. And the solution is very simple. All you have to do is come to a few meetings so we get to know you and you get to know us then STEP UP TO THE PLATE! The club is only as good as YOU make it. If you have any great ideas I can assure you that the BMA will step up to support you! In fact Marlene is doing exactly that with her Family Fun Day and Dave has stepped up with a dualsport initiative. We don't expect anyone to go it alone as we have knowledge base in the club regarding insurance, logistics etc. AND we don't mind offering advice and even getting out to help with arrowing and the other "dirty hands" tasks.
So, the AGM is coming up on April 6th at the Kemptville Snowmobile Clubhouse (details to follow) so BE THERE with ideas or CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.
Now that my blood pressure is down only slightly, the best advice I can offer is to join the BMA for a year and give it a chance. If you aren't happy with your "return on investment" then, by all means, feel free not to renew. As I stated earlier; despite all the (apparent) focus on competition, our mandate is as a trail riding club and we WILL NOT lose that focus.
In closing, I had a good chat with the gentleman who rides the Transalp (sorry, I'm terrible with names) and I sincerely hope he was made to feel welcome. Although bikes like that tend not to be very good on the harder single track (unless your name is David Knight) we already have a fair number of dualsporters that enjoy the two track and, especially, the hydro lines. AND the more inexperienced riders seem to love that stuff too so we always have a group leader at our rides to take our members out on this stuff.
So....torpedoes away; bring it on! I seem to relish the abuse in a perverse sort of way.

 

[mph450e]

don't mean to hijack the thread.......I agree with pulling on the DS guys. Here's why -

I'm excited to see some frustrations being tabled. Newer members wanting something more, or different. Older members trying to run/adapt the club, knowing and feeling the resource constraints.

I was a newbie 4 years ago. The membership officer intro'd me to the sport in Limerick - I showed up on an XR650r, wearing sneakers....that's another story.

I've been to as many meetings as I could. Intimidating at first, but I've made some really good friends and felt welcome the whole time. I've been on-bike support for the boogie 2 years in a row and the family ride since I started. I've been responsible for club membership for almost 3 years. I won't tell you how many kids I have, and what their ages are. BTW - full gear and a fitting bike now...

Point is - not only are new ideas, skills, people, etc welcome in a core group who are doing there level best, we're pulling on it. I can tell you from experience, a dozen people running this club is exhausting. Shear love of the sport keeps you going.

Our world is changing in terms of who is buying bikes, and where you can ride. Hard core riders are being followed by families on the same trails, and it's as new to the hard core as it is for the family. Image is an issue for the club and sport in general; any help changing that is welcome.

Bring on the ideas, come to meetings, and get to know the members who are both new and old. Contribute where you can, while learning the ropes both on and off bike. We're all in this together.

Cheers - Mike

 

[shipwrek12001]

Again I am NOT try to frustrate anyone. . I should not of put it that way. Sorry


I'm trying to find somewhere to goof off without clocks, lines and arrows. But arrows are always nice. I will be signing with the club, as far as the AGM in april I don't know where this is in Kemptville. I would like to go, I'll be the one in the back corner taking it all in. I am willing to keep my end of the deal as per the club agreement. I have ideas but have to understand how things work and that is very clear I DO NOT KNOW. I can only go by the pictures and what is being post on the site.

After reading the replies from my post I have frustrated Kevin and others and I hope you didn't catch your lip grinding your teeth. :shock:

 

[mph450e]

Hey shipwrek12001 - great to hear you'll be at the AGM. A hearty welcome to you.
Give me a call for directions (see membership application for phone number). FYI - you're looking for the snowmobile club house off country rd 20...I'll give specifics when you call or watch the forum.
We have a newsletter coming out this month; send me your address and I'll make sure you get one.
As for a ride area, there are a few DS guys in the club I could introduce you to. Or come with me for a scoot around limerick forest. It would help me (to help you) if I knew the bike, your riding experience, etc.

See you soon - Mike

 

[troy]

Hi Mike,

I would like to take you up on that offer for a scoot around limerick. This would be the first time my kids have ridden in Limerick. I have explored a fair bit of it, but not all.

Just need 6 feet of snow to thaw.

Thanks,

Troy

 

[mph450e]

Troy - no problem - the forest opens once the water goes down. Call me in the spring. Let's RIDE.

Mike