Charging a Lithium Ion Battery!

[jmajor]

So the 2017 KTM XCW 250 comes with a 12V Skyrich Lithium Ion Battery (HJTZ5S-FP), which is super light and looks like it'll serve me well, but i'm starting to think about how to maintain this battery over the winter!

I've been reading loads of web sites about the dangers of Lithium Ion battery chargers, and KTM don't have one that works with Lithium Ion batteries!! Seems weird since they included the battery on the bike!?

I did check the Skyrich website, and they actually have a Lithium Battery Smart Charger for $80 USD!?

Does anyone have any experience with this charger or a recommendation for another way to charge this battery?? I have been looking at Bench Power Supplies with constant current/constant voltage, but these guys a bit pricier and shipping costs really add up!

I'm hoping to get a few (more than a few??) rides in before i have to put her to bed for the winter!!

Jason

 

[rossw]

I am not a battery expert but I know for my son's RCs which have Lithium Ion batteries, there is a store function which actually discharges the battery to some point. From what I understand Lithium Ion do not like to be stored fully charged or discharged.

 

[jmajor]

hey Ross! yeah, that's what concerns me, these Lithium Ion batteries have some peculiarities that to be handled properly...here's the guidance I was going to follow:

- Store inside - these batteries do not like to be frozen!!
- Do not use battery tender - trickle charges are disastrous for these kinds of batteries!
- Do not use Lead Acid battery charger! - Also disastrous for these batteries
- Do not fully discharge, they don't like that either! this is NOT a deep cycle battery!
- Carefully monitor the temperature of the battery while charging
- do not overcharge, use a charger that has a limit on how much voltage is sent to the battery - this is critical!

I guess "regular" battery chargers don't understand the voltage signature of Li Ion, especially when charging and can easily overcharge causing "venting with flame" - lol!!! don't think I want that...

I'm talking to a company in the US about a bench power supply that seems to be the best way to charge anything, including Li Ion and all the derivatives (has limits for both current and voltage), I've asked them about the Skyrich battery charger for their opinion...i'll post what they say...

Jason
PS: Going to try to get out to Limerick today if it stops raining, possibly tomorrow and/or Saturday before the Nov 6th hunting season starts up!

 

[rossw]

Ya, sounds like you understand the respect that these batteries deserve. For my son's RC we have a fully programmable charger with pro-programmed functions. A lot of the RC guys actually have fireproof boxes that they charge their batteries in. I never got that serious, but was always very cautious when charging them.

 

[zedro]

Ya, sounds like you understand the respect that these batteries deserve. For my son's RC we have a fully programmable charger with pro-programmed functions. A lot of the RC guys actually have fireproof boxes that they charge their batteries in. I never got that serious, but was always very cautious when charging them.

I use a hobby charger for my Li battery, in fact my particular charger is rebranded by Ballistic, which also doubles the price. If your battery has a balancing port (small 4 pin connector) it's the way to go. However, I think you are overthinking this, Li batteries hold their charge much much longer than lead acid batteries, and will hardly discharge over the winter. I mainly use mine for balancing, although some batteries (Like Earth) are self balancing. And if you're worried about the cold weather, just take the battery out!

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/batteries/b ... ac-dc.html

I use the IMAX B6 (bought for my RC planes)...note that there are different Lithium types, ours are usually LiFe, LiPo batteries are typically for the hobby packs.

 

[gman]

I’ll be a contrarian... I called Shorai and they said you can use a BatteryTender (The brand... which I have 2 of) charger to top it up @ end of the season. You just don’t want to use it often. But ok to top them up @ end of season. Then I put them in the house for the winter. I never charge ours in-season. They never lose enough charge to need it and the Stator on the bikes seems to keep them close to optimal.

4th season for 2x Shorai batteries with no issues.

 

[KevinAnderson]

Grant, I have 2 Shorai's, 4 and 5 years old I believe. But the Shorai is a Lithium iron battery, so they are not quite the same. My shorai charger has a storage function, but I don't know what it actually does as when I plug it in in the spring to "charge" it up, it says it's fully charged after 20 seconds.

Edit: fixed a failed underline attempt.

 

[jmajor]

Just to let everyone know who's following this thread...

I pulled the battery off the bike in the fall, stored inside the house. When spring finally arrived, plugged it back in and the bike fired up on the first push of the starter button! This battery didn't lose any charge over the winter!

Maybe as it ages, I might need to keep it topped up and possibly balance it as suggested.

For now, I'm not going to worry about it, and just ride!!

J

 

[gman]

Grant, I have 2 Shorai's, 4 and 5 years old I believe. But the Shorai is a Lithium iron battery, so they are not quite the same. My shorai charger has a storage function, but I don't know what it actually does as when I plug it in in the spring to "charge" it up, it says it's fully charged after 20 seconds.

Mine takes about 20-30 mins... Not 20 seconds!

 

[rackatttack]

most chargers will work with lithium ion batteries just dont use a charger that has a desulfate mode. The big issue is over charging with a regular charger so max time is 3-5 hrs at a time on a regular charger
Now KTM does have an optimate lithium ion charger available
SO My BIG Q is if a lithium battery requires a specific charger then why does the charging system on the motorcyle still work and no the regulator rectifier has not changed to accommodate it???? mmmmmmm :shock:

 

[zedro]

I believe all the moto batteries are Lithium Iron (LiFe)...

Dave: most standard trickle chargers will actually undercharge LiFe batteries because they are actually in the +14.4v range and I think our charging systems do charge that high. Also some batteries need to be balanced once and awhile (because the 4 cells may not have an internal balancing bridge) which can degrade life and performance. Then there's the desulfate mode as stated before. I'm not sure if persistent charging is as much as a problem with LiFe as it is with other Lithium types, it just comes down to make sure your charger is compatible 'enough'.

EarthX batteries come with an internal balancing circuit, overdraw protection and under voltage cutoffs. LiFe batteries will keep their charges much longer (barring parasitic loses) but draining them flat will kill them early.